At a very minimum we should probably pay more attention to this area. Perhaps this discussion is useful to someone.
I’m also wondering at the end if Heiser will convince me since he make that claim in his book.
I wrote this as a comment on Dr. Dilday’s Post..
An elderly couple, close friends ask me to read the “Unsean Realm” by Heiser. I did read a review of the book before diving into it.
Having begun reading it (the book not the review) I come away with these intitial impressions…
In my mind he come across as arrogant, by that I mean he sounds like he is so learned and yet “humble” aka “Why did I never see this”, and that he has it figured out and all the past historical (and probably when I get into Protestant theology) just covered it up or ignored it at best. He is selling his new ideas…as academics typically do, I have a fear that it doesn’t uplift our faith but in his way deconstructs our old understandings….in that it is almost Gnostic. I would use caution.
Perhaps my impression will change…But both your work here, and his Book to point us into this more Unseen Realm, which is probabally a worthwhile endeavor I trying to appreciate this very real aspect of God’s creation and how it helps mankind in particular.
Reading your article I did look up some verses you mentioned and the Old John Gill commentary. For what it’s worth here is the outline summary. If this is too long feel free to not post it up. I am not a scholar or theologian by in stretch of the imagination. At least I found it a useful exercise to look these up.
Psalms 82:1 Heiser’s lead verse… in context…
82:1 [A Psalm of Asaph.] God standeth in the congregation of the {a} mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
(a) The prophet shows that if princes and judges do not do their duty, God whose authority is above them will take vengeance on them. Geneva Bible Note. And in KJV.
Psa 82:1 A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
Psa 82:2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
Psa 82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
Psa 82:4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
Psa 82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Psa 82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
Psa 82:8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
Gill’s comment..
INTRODUCTION TO PSALM 82
A Psalm of Asaph. This psalm was written for the use of persons in power, for the instruction of kings and princes, judges and civil magistrates; according to Kimchi, it was written about the times of Jehoshaphat, who appointed new judges throughout the land; those that were before having been very corrupt, to whom he gave a charge agreeably to the purport of this psalm, 2Ch 19:5, but it seems rather to be written by Asaph, in the times of David, under a spirit of prophecy, and has respect to the times of Christ, when there was a great corruption among the judges and rulers of the Jews, both civil and ecclesiastic. The Syriac version calls it, “a reproof of the ungodly Jews”; our Lord cites a passage out of it in vindication of himself from their charge of blasphemy, Jhn 10:34.
Psalms 82:1
God standeth in the congregation of the mighty,…. The Syriac version renders it, “in the congregation of angels”; they are mighty, and excel in strength, and there is a large company of them, even an innumerable one, and who surround the throne of the Majesty on high. Christ, who is God over all, was among those on Mount Sinai, and when he ascended to heaven; and with these he will descend when he comes a second time, Psa 68:17. The Targum interprets it of the righteous thus,
“God, whose majesty (or Shechinah) dwells in the congregation of the righteous that are strong in the law.”
It may be better understood of such as are strong in the Lord, in the grace that is in Christ, and in the exercise of grace upon him; who are gathered out of the world unto him, and unto distinct societies and congregations; in the midst of which God is, where he grants his presence, bestows the blessings of his grace, and affords his divine aid and protection; and where Christ the Son of God is, and will be to the end of the world. The words may be rendered, “God standeth in the congregation of God” (a): that is, in his own congregation, his church and people; but it seems best of all to understand the words of rulers and civil magistrates, of the cabinet councils of princes, of benches of judges, and courts of judicature; in all which God is present, and observes what is said and done; perhaps reference may be had to the Jewish sanhedrim, the chief court of judicature with the Jews, consisting of seventy one persons; in the midst of which Christ, God manifest in the flesh, God in our nature, stood, and was ill used, and most unjustly judged by them, of whose unjust judgment complaint is made in the next verse:
he judgeth among the gods: which the Syriac version renders “angels” again; and so Aben Ezra interprets it of them, who are so called, Psa 8:5, but rather civil magistrates are meant, the rulers and judges of the people, who go by this name of “elohim”, or gods, in Exo 21:6, and are so called because they are the powers ordained of God, are representatives of him, are his vicegerents and deputies under him; should act in his name, according to his law, and for his glory, and are clothed with great power and authority from and under him; and therefore are before styled the “mighty”. Among these Christ, the Son of God, judges, to whom all judgment is committed; he qualifies these for the discharge of their office, he directs them how to judge, and all the right judgment they make and do is from him, “by” whom “kings”
reign, and princes decree justice; by whom princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth; and to whom they are all accountable, and will be themselves judged by him another day, Pro 8:15 so the Targum,
“in the midst of the judges of truth he judges.”
(a) בעדת אל “in congregatione Dei”, Pagninus, Cocceius, Gejerus, Michaelis; so Vatablus, Junius & Tremellius, Piscator, Ainsworth.
Here are some verses I looked up in Dr. Dilday’s article…and Gill’s comments.
Heb 2:2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
Hebrews 2:2
For if the word spoken by angels was steadfast,…. This is a description of the law, from whence the apostle argues to a stricter regard to the Gospel, as from the lesser to the greater: this is called “the word”, and a terrible one it was; it was a voice of words, which they that heard entreated they might hear no more; it was the word “spoken” with an articulate voice, and was heard by the Israelites, and it was spoken “by angels”. Jehovah the Father’s voice was never heard; when he came to give the law, ten thousand angels came along with him; and the ministry of these he used in the delivery of the law; by them he spoke it; they formed in the air the voices heard; it was ordained by them, and given by the disposition of them; see Act 7:53. To which agree those words of Herod, spoken to the Jews, recorded by Josephus (b); that we learn of God, δι’ αγγελων, “by angels”, the best of doctrines, and the most holy things in the law. And this was “steadfast”; firm, and sure, being the word of God, which cannot pass away, until it be fulfilled: it was confirmed by terrible signs attending it, and by the people’s assent unto it; the penalty of it is sure and certain, in case of disobedience; and as to the form and ministration of it, it remained until Christ, the end of it, came; and as to the matter of it, so far as of a moral nature, it still remains: the judicial and ceremonial parts of it are abrogated; and the whole of it is abolished, as in the hands of Moses, and as a covenant of works, and as to the curse and condemnation of it, and with respect to justification by it; but it still continues as a cursing law to all that are under it; and as a means of conviction to sinners in the hands of the Spirit; and as a rule of walk and conversation to saints, as in the hands of Christ:
Act 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
Who have received the law, by the disposition of angels,…. Who attended the angel that spake to Moses on Mount Sinai, Act 7:38 who is the head of all principality and power, and whom he might make use of in giving the law to Moses: hence the law is said to be ordained by angels, in the hand of a Mediator, and is called the word spoken by angels, Gal 3:19 and certain it is, that there were great numbers of angels on Mount Sinai, when the law was given, Deu 33:2 And so the Jews say (m), that
“when the holy blessed God descended on Mount Sinai, there came down with him many companies of angels, Michael and his company, and Gabriel and his company”
Indeed they often say (n),
“the law was not given to the ministering angels:”
their meaning is, it was not given to them to observe and keep, because there are some things in it, which do not concern angels; but then it might be given to them to deliver to Moses, who gave it to the Israelites, and so may be said to receive it by the ministration of angels, through the hands of Moses. And now the law being given and received in so grand a manner, was an aggravation of the sin of the Jews in violating it, as it follows:
and have not kept it; but broke it in innumerable instances, and scarce kept it in any; for no man can keep it perfectly.
(m) Debarim Rabba, sect. 2. fol. 237. 3. (n) T. Bab. Beracot, fol. 25. 2. Yoma. fol. 30. 1. Kiddushin, fol. 54. 1.
Act 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
with the angel which spake to him in the Mount Sina: this is the same angel as before, in Act 7:30 and refers either to his speaking to him then, saying, I am the God of thy fathers, &c. which was at Mount Sinai; or rather to the time when the law was given on that mount; and it may be to both; it is true of each, though it, may more especially regard the latter; for it was the angel of the divine presence, the second person in the Trinity, the word of God, that bid Moses come up into the mount; and who spake all the ten words to him; and who is described in so grand and august a manner in Deu 33:2
and with our fathers; the Jewish ancestors, who came out of Egypt under Moses, with whom he was as their deliverer and ruler, their guide and governor:
who received the lively oracles to give unto us; he received from the angel which spake to him the law, to deliver to the children of Israel; which is called “the oracles”, because it came from God, and contained his mind and will, and was a sure and infallible declaration of it; and “lively” ones, because delivered “viva voce”, with an articulate voice, and in audible sounds, and because it is quick and powerful, sharper than a two-edged sword. The Vulgate Latin and Ethiopic versions render it, “the words of life”: not that the law gives life, or points out the way of life and salvation to sinful men; it is to them all the reverse; it is the killing letter, and the ministration of condemnation and death: it is indeed a rule of life, or of walk and conversation to men, and it promises life in case of perfect obedience, Lev 18:5 but this is impracticable by fallen men, and therefore there is no life nor righteousness by the law. Though these lively oracles may be considered in a larger extent, as including all the promises of God respecting the Messiah, delivered to Moses, and all the rites and ordinances of the ceremonial law, which pointed out Christ, as the way of life, righteousness, and salvation, from whence they may very well take this name.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
and it was ordained by angels; not Moses and Aaron, and Joshua, as some say; for though Moses was concerned in the giving of the law, yet not Aaron nor Joshua, nor are any of them ever called angels; but the holy elect angels are here meant, the ten thousands of saints, or holy ones, God came to Mount Sinai with, and the Lord was among, in the holy place; see Deu 33:2 and so the Jews say (l) that the Lord appeared on Mount Sinai gloriously, עם כיתיה דמלאכיא, “with companies”, or “troops of angels”, to give the law to his people: and this may be said to be “ordained” by them, inasmuch as it might be written and spoken by them, as the instruments and ministers God made use of; for though the tables are said to be the work of God, and the writing the writing of God, and to be written with the finger of God, and he is said to speak all the words of it, yet this hinders not, but that all this might be done by the means of angels; who might be employed in disposing and fitting the stones in the form they were, and in writing the law upon them; hence it is said to be given by the disposition of angels, Act 7:53 and certain it is, that it was spoken by them, Heb 2:2 they forming in the air those articulate and audible sounds, when the law was delivered; who were also concerned in the thunderings and lightnings, and in the blowing of the trumpet, that waxed louder and louder at that time:
in the hand of a mediator; not Christ, as many interpreters, ancient and modern, have thought; for though he was present at the giving of the law, as appears from Act 7:38 and is the Mediator between God and man, and had the law in his hand, out of which it went forth as the lawgiver; and as the surety of his people has fulfilled it, and by so doing put an end to it, and delivered them from the curse and condemnation of it; yet he is the Mediator of the new and better covenant, not the ministration of death, but of life; and so Moses and Christ, the law and Gospel, the old and the new covenant, are continually opposed to each other; besides, the mediator here seems to be represented as inferior to the angels, and as receiving the law into his hands from them, by whom it was ordained; which to conceive of Christ, is very much to the demeaning and lessening of him. Moses is the mediator here meant, who stood between God and the people of Israel; not to make peace between them, but to show the word of God from him to them, and this at their own request; see Deu 5:5, and in his hand the tables of the law were, when he came down from the mount, and was a typical mediator of Christ. So the Jews say of him, that
“he was אמצעי, “a mediator” between them and God (m).”
(l) Targum in 1 Chron. xxix. 11. (m) Tzeror Hammor, fol. 136. 1, 2.
Deu 33:2 And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.
and he came with ten thousands of saints: or holy angels, as the Targums of Onkelos and Jonathan, and so Jarchi; which sense is confirmed by the authorities of Stephen the protomartyr, and the Apostle Paul, who speak of the law as given by the disposition of angels, they being present, attending and assisting on that solemn occasion, Act 7:57; see Psa 68:17; the appearance of those holy spirits in such great numbers added to the grandeur and solemnity of the giving of the holy law to the people of Israel, as the attendance of the same on Christ at his second coming will add to the lustre and glory of it, Luk 9:26,
from his right hand went a fiery law for them: the Israelites; Aben Ezra thinks the phrase, “his right hand”, is in connection with the preceding clause; and the sense is, that fire came from the law, thousands of saints were at the right hand of God to surround Israel, as the horses of fire and chariots of fire surrounded Elisha; and the meaning of the last words, “a law for them”, a law which stands or abides continually; and so the Septuagint version is,”at his right hand angels with him:”no doubt that law is meant which came from God on Mount Sinai, by the ministration of angels, into the hand of Moses; called a fiery law, because it was given out of the midst of the fire, Deu 5:26; so the Targum of Onkelos,
“the writing of his right hand out of the midst of fire, the law he gave unto us;”and because of its effects on the consciences of men, where it pierces and penetrates like fire, and works a sense of wrath and fiery indignation in them, by reason of the transgressions of it, it being the ministration of condemnation and death on that account; and, because of its use, it serves as a lantern to the feet, and a light to the path of good men: this law may include the judicial and ceremonial laws given at this time; but it chiefly respects the moral law, and which may be said to come from God, who, as Creator, has a right to be Governor of his creature, and to enact what laws he pleases, and from his right hand, in allusion to men’s writing with their right hand, this being written by the finger of God; and because a peculiar gift of his to the Israelites, gifts being given by the right hand of men; and may denote the authority and power with which this law came enforced, and Christ seems to be the person from whose right hand it came: see Psa 68:17.
(d) Vid. Pirke Eliezer, c. 41.
Rainbow Trout 