Rainbow Trout

Mike Ratliff’s concluding Doctinal discussion is a fitting ending. And Mike is right the purpose is to stimulate our own study into these truths. From reading my own blog you may know how much I quote from John 6, but this expanded passage that Mike quotes from in Chapter 10 is also important to understand.

Jhn 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

Jhn 10:23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon’s porch.

Jhn 10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

Jhn 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me.

Jhn 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Jhn 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Jhn 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Jhn 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.

Jhn 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Jhn 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

Jhn 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

Jhn 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Old John Gill expands on the phrases in v28 & v29, and I think properly excludes the “man” italics the KJV translators added,

The lead passage Mike uses in the post has this assurance and it goes well beyond what “man” alone is not capable of doing…

Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

It’s rare I disagree with the wording in the KJV, but my observation is that the translators thought it was better to use the older Tyndale wording including “man”, but made it clear via italic’s it’s not in the Greek. Perhaps it make the oral reading sound better, or it’s truth that in many case it’s men who try to draw others away from the seeds of our faith. The Geneva Bible does not include the word.

”The KJV translators frequently supplied words in italics when they believed English idiom required them. In their judgment, “any man” was a natural English rendering of τις/οὐδείς even though “man” was not explicitly represented in the Greek. The italics indicate that the word was supplied.

The KJV translators were heavily dependent on earlier English Bibles, especially Tyndale. In many places they retained Tyndale’s wording where it was considered sound English. Since Tyndale had already rendered the phrase “no man,” the KJV simply preserved that familiar wording while marking “man” in italics as a supplied English word. The Geneva translators had chosen a slightly more concise rendering, but the KJV often preferred traditional phrasing inherited from Tyndale.

The evidence suggests this was a matter of English style and idiom rather than a theological or specifically Reformed interpretation of the passage. The Geneva translators simply stayed a bit closer to the Greek wording, while Tyndale and the KJV translators used the common English idiom “no man” to mean “no one.”” AI

John Gill….

neither shall any pluck them out of my hand; Christ’s sheep are in his hands, being put there by God the Father, both as an instance of his love to Christ, and them; and this was done from all eternity, even when they were chosen in him; so that they were in the hands of Christ, before they were in the loins of Adam; and were preserved in him, notwithstanding Adam’s fall, and through the ruins of it. To be in the hands of Christ, is to be high in his esteem and favour; the saints are a crown of glory in the hand of the Lord, and a royal diadem in the hand of their God; they are a signet on his right hand that shall never be plucked off; they are engraven on the palms of his hands: to be in the hands of Christ, is to be in his possession, and at his dispose, as all the elect of God are; and to be under his guidance, care, and protection, as they be; they are fed according to the integrity of his heart, and guided by the skilfulness of his hands; they are always under his care and watchful eye, who protects them from all their enemies, and hides them in the hollow of his hand: hence, because they are so, they are called “the sheep of his hand”, Psa 95:7. And none shall ever pluck them from thence; no man can do it, not any false teacher can remove them from Christ, by all the art and cunning he is master of; nor any violent persecutor, by all the force and power he can use; nor can any sin, or snare, or temptation, draw them out of Christ’s hands; nor any adversity whatever separate them from him: they must be safe, and always abide there, who are in the hands of Christ; for his hands have laid the foundations of the heavens and the earth, they grasp the whole universe, and hold all things together; and who then can pluck any out of these hands? Moreover, Christ, as Mediator, has all power in heaven and earth; and even as man, he is the man of God’s right hand, made strong for himself. v28

and none is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand; so that these sheep have a double security; they are in the hands of Christ, and they are in the hands of the Father of Christ; wherefore could it be thought, which ought not to be, that they could be plucked out of Christ’s hands, yet it can never be imagined, that any can pluck them out of the hands of God the Father; and there is no more reason to think that they can be plucked out of the hands of the one, than there is that they can be plucked out of the hands of the other, as is clear from what follows in Jhn 10:30; see the Apocrypha:

“But the souls of the righteous are in the hand of God, and there shall no torment touch them.” (Wisdom 3:1). v29